Produce. Protect. Restore. Reduce with Wanjira Mathai

Wanjira Mathai is a formidable force in environmental advocacy, dedicated to advancing sustainable and equitable development across Africa and beyond. With over two decades of leadership experience, she has become a global voice for climate resilience, restoration, and social justice.

She is the Managing Director for Africa and Global Partnerships at the World Resources Institute (WRI), where she drives strategies that center Africa’s role in shaping global solutions. In this role, she directs attention, research, and funding to climate-vulnerable communities while championing inclusive green growth.

Wanjira has led landmark initiatives throughout her career: she served as Chair of the Green Belt Movement, the pioneering grassroots organization founded by her late mother, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Wangari Maathai. She has championed women entrepreneurs in renewable energy, and is at the forefront of a pan-African movement to restore 100 million hectares of degraded land by 2030.

Her influence extends across global policy and advocacy networks. She is the Chair of the Wangari Maathai Foundation, serves on the Leadership Council of the Clean Cooking Alliance, and sits on the High-Level Group of the Africa-Europe Foundation and the European Climate Foundation Advisory Council.

Named to Time’s list of the 100 Most Influential African Women in 2018, 2020, 2021, 2023, and 2024, Wanjira’s work continues to elevate Africa’s role not as a continent to be saved, but as a partner with the power to lead. Her vision is rooted in restoring land, trust, and dignity—while unlocking the bold, green future Africa deserves.

Transcript

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Welcome to Overnight Wisdom, a show where we sit with changemakers, artists, business leaders, and thinkers. Each conversation is an invitation to slow down, to go deeper, and unearth the quiet insights that shape who we are. If you're seeking honest reflections, unexpected wisdom, and a deeper understanding of what it takes to not merely survive, but to thrive. You're in the right place. Africa holds 60 % of the world's arable land, the youngest population, and the greatest solar potential on earth. Yet the systems and resources to unlock this promise remain scarce. My guest today, Wanjira Mathai is one of the world's leading voices and a formidable force in environmental advocacy. She has been named among Time's 100 most influential African women five times. And she carries forward a legacy of activism as the daughter of noble Wanjira reminds us that Africa is not just a continent to be saved, but a partner with the power to lead. In this conversation, we explore what it takes to restore land. restore trust and restore dignity while unleashing the bold green future Africa deserves. The environment isn't a sector, it's a lens. But this is not just about the environment. It is about people, sustainable and equitable development and possibility. Let's dive in. welcome today. ah Wanjira, it's really, really, really nice to have you here. I'm so excited for this conversation. Thanks for being here. to be here. Thank you. So I like to jump right into the meat of things and I want to know a little bit more about you. How did your childhood or your upbringing shape who you are today? Well, it's a very funny question always because you don't know until in retrospect, right? You sort of look back and you realize that a lot of what you experienced, a lot of what you were exposed to, sometimes not even that long ago, has shaped who you've become. So I would really say I was shaped a lot by my mother's own activism, by her commitment to environmental conservation. but also just her love for nature. She was just constant. was everything we did, everything we celebrated, you planted something. We didn't even live in a very big space, but we always had space to plant something. So that was a very constant in my life. And I think it definitely shaped me. But actually my entire educational career as a scientist and later in public health. I never thought I would go into the environmental climate. That was not my plan. My plan was to go into medicine initially, and then I pivoted into public health. And that's where I thought my career would go. And then I went into business, and that was a little bit of a small diversion, but it was around how we communicate effectively for behavior change. I was working in public health for six years and realized... It's the nuances of how we communicate that makes a difference, but yet business does it so well. They convince us to buy stuff we don't even need. So I was really inspired by marketing and social marketing in particular. So that was the direction of travel. it was really not, I would say the work chose me in many ways. I'd never chose it because I was not headed into the environmental or climate space at all. Thanks for sharing. Cause I'm also reflecting on the fact that, there are set career paths for a lot of Africans, you know, in terms of like do the things that are sensible, the business, the engineering, the medicine, and then the environment is still something that for many of us is so far removed from, is this a career path? from talking to you also before I see that there is a deep love for the land and the people within that land. I know you said you grew up with, just planting things and being a part of the environment as part of your life. But when do you think that shift towards like a core focus on the environment and the people within it, when did it happen? Well, I think my public health work was already environment. And I guess what I learned in retrospect is everything is environment. Whether you're in health, you're in communications, you're in um engineering. Now we're talking about EVs, we're talking about how technology is transforming, energy is transforming. All of this is part of an environmental um balance that we're constantly negotiating. And I think now I realize You could be in any field a lawyer and have an environmental slant. You could be a politician and be a green politician who's focused on uh fairness, on justice, on green activism. So the idea that the environment is apart from everything else is just completely debunked when you realize just how intertwined it is with everything. It's a choice you make, perhaps, whether to incorporate it or not, but it isn't a thing on its own. Hmm. a lens through which anything is done. I was just talking to friends in Ethiopia last week who are in health and now health and climate is so closely intertwined. How are we going to have to adapt to extreme heat? I mean, we're not even talking about pandemics, just extreme heat. Your body can only take so much and then how do you cool it down? That's a health issue. To extreme cold, that's a health issue. to floods and of course diseases and all of that. But there's so many other health issues that are coming into this issue of the environment that it's become more than just a thing on its own. So I think that for me now I can say without any exaggeration that it is everything really. Absolutely, absolutely. all intersect and it is not siloed away from anything in any field that we occupy. Exactly, exactly. I have a question on Africa because this is an area where you work a lot in and you have a lot of love for it. I think it is a known fact that Africa holds 60 % of the world's arable land. But food insecurity is a significant problem for us. when we think about climate change, it's not only just, you know, say an environmental issue, but it's also a issue for sovereignty. How do you think we can bridge that gap how can we get Africa to where it needs to be I know food production is a big discussion, but actually one would have to look at nature, protection, production, how we reduce waste, what we're able to produce, and of course, how we produce food. I think there's an emerging paradigm that is extremely powerful. Produce, protect, reduce, restore. That if you produce more restoratively using nature, Producing what nature is good for the soils replenishing the soils with the legumes and other pulses and Rotating things that we were taught very early on in our lives and then you can also protect especially watershed areas ensuring that Conservation is very much a part of how we live that we know now science is telling us very clearly that Certain ecosystems are crucial water towers that we shouldn't destroy them. We shouldn't cut those trees down and plant cabbages, and that's actually not a good idea. So there's a whole understanding of how the ecosystem works. So this whole systemic approach is really important. So we produce the right things for the right places. We consume what is available. So producing food and consuming food that is from closer around us. And then of course, reducing waste. We know that we lose 30% of our food post-harvest. That would plug the gap on food insecurity in many places. There's a whole discussion around all of this all at once. We need to produce better. We need to protect what we have and ensure especially critical ecosystems are protected. We need to restore degraded landscapes. You've mentioned 60% of the arable land. We also have 70 % of the world's restoration potential. So much degradation that needs to be restored. And then of course we need to reduce waste. I hear that. And then I'm also thinking that for communities in the north of Nigeria or in villages across Africa, where they don't have the infrastructure, ah the resource to actually do the work of conservation, right? I worked on a project in uh Katsina state in Nigeria where people from the community are cutting down trees because that's the only way they can cook food for their families. So how do we bridge those gaps? We on one hand, we don't want to take away their sustenance or their way to sustenance. Who is responsible for doing this work? the state is partly responsible for ensuring that people have access to food and resources that they need. And then, of course, ensuring that people can grow food. We know that water, provision of water resources, it doesn't have to always be in the same place, but we have to make sure that people are able to access water to survive and, of course, grow food or purchase food, because, of course, not everybody grows. We have a real issue of food distribution here. I don't know about Nigeria, but... You have food producing, the food basket is in one area, and people who live not that far away can't access it. So it's an issue of food distribution. So there's infrastructure issues all around. There's the work that the state has to do to deliver for the people, and that's part of the social services and the social system that has to work for the people, because not everybody can produce food everywhere. Kenya is two-thirds arid, semi-arid, or desert. Only a third of Kenya is arable. That food has to get to... the rest of the country and that's a distribution issue. Hmm. And do you also think that has something to do with also distribution across the African continent? Because a lot of our food within the continent also comes from abroad outside of the continent. What work Hmm. food comes from so far is a tragedy. We should have a lot more intra-Africa trade. We should have a lot more free flowing, uh the free movement of people. I've always been a big advocate of the free movement of people. It's a shame that actually sometimes it's easier for Africans to go overseas than it is for us to go to the country next door. So it's really important. It's been really inspired by countries that have Kenya has, Rwanda has, Burkina Faso now has, allowed for the free movement of people. It's crucial for Africa's integration that we have the free movement of people and talent across, and therefore goods and also services. And so if we could have rice from Senegal, rice from Nigeria, rather than getting rice from far away, that would be much better for our continent's growth, but also for the fact that the food is just across the border. What do you think it would take for that switch? Because I know Kenya, as you also mentioned, just made it like any African can arrive in Kenya without a visa. What does it take to get the other countries to catch up? Well, you tell me, at least Kenya has done it, Rwanda has done it, Burkina Faso has done it. It's the leadership that has to make the decision that it is in their best interest to have talent from the rest of the continent to come and to have the free movement and the free movement of goods and services. So I don't know what's in their minds. It makes sense to me. I don't know. Makes sense to me too. It's always a struggle with the leadership, know. The right thing is there, but they choose not to do it. it's not obvious, always obvious. Yeah, yeah. as a continent, we see though that our economic models, they often continue to replicate extractive systems that don't necessarily serve us now, or the future. What would it take to radically reimagine economic development on the continent and what does that look like? Africa has the youngest people on the continent, which is a huge asset that we should be looking at, not only as sheer numbers, but as the really opportunity for growth and development. think Africa's economic transformation is the subject. I just came back from the Africa Climate Summit 2 and Africa Climate Summit 1. This was the big discussion, the role of Africa as a uh hub of green solutions, the best solar potential in the world, the youngest and fastest growing workforce, the hub of most of the critical minerals. How do we build our own economies by processing raw materials and not being the suppliers of raw materials to carbon intensive? processes far away that we could actually intensify and decarbonize by processing locally. So building green infrastructure and green industry locally is a crucial part. And I do hear a lot of our leaders talking like that, which is extremely inspiring. There is no way to grow your economy by supplying raw materials and buying finished products. We have to find a way to add value and to create space and to create jobs and to create is about jobs. an opportunity for this largest and youngest workforce in the world. That is correct actually. think in 25 years or so, one in four people in the world are going to be African. So of course, like in terms of human capital it's there. And so I'm also just thinking based on what you've said, if we look at it from where our resource currently lies, or at least where a lot of our leaders, exploiting more than other areas, we look at our resources that lies on the ground. So it's the minerals, it's the primary goods, so to say that are then shipped abroad and then re-imported back into the country. So we see these natural resources that we have, but we also need to develop other forms of wealth. we need to develop human capital, so we're thinking of things like health, education, how can we develop strong institutions, how can we create more innovative systems and structures. Why do you think this is not happening? Because we know it should be happening, why is it not? don't know. If I were in charge, it would be, and I'm not. So I'm not sure why it's not happening in real terms, but these are the priorities we ought to be placing. If we're not educating our children, if we're not investing locally, what are we doing then? So I think that's why we are starting to see a shift in the language where leaders are starting to say, no, we have to build talent locally. We have to educate our children. You know, we've had leadership in this country which prioritized primary education. It was free. at a certain time and the kids flooded into school and we now see a highly educated young population. And so we know that it works and this is part of the policy making we have to continue to push for. It's part of the leadership that we have to continue to push for so that we can see these dreams come true because it's not rocket science. Yes, absolutely. I want to shift a bit to climate at the intersection of justice. Oftentimes when there are global climate negotiations within the African context, Africa is often seen as the continent to be saved in need of aid rather than a partner in the co-creation of solutions. How do you see the shift in that power dynamic because you're actively in this space? Is anything changing? um How are we appearing at the table to be a part of climate finance and redefining just kind of like how the global system works? Well, I certainly see oh the African Union and African leaders speaking more in one voice in this case, that's saying that actually we absolutely have to change the way are uh showing up as Africans. We cannot continue to be suppliers of raw materials. We've got to invest. If you look at the Nairobi declaration of the Africa Climate Summit 1, that was what it was about. Yes, we are victims of climate change and we are disproportionately affected, but we are also the hub of solutions that we cannot um be continued to be driven. We have to stand up and lead. So this idea of African leadership, African leadership started already two years ago in the climate summit, and we are seeing a lot more of that. We're seeing a lot of that in Ethiopia. We're seeing a lot of that in Rwanda. We're seeing a lot of that in East Africa. We're seeing a lot of that in West Africa. So it's happening. I think that idea is exactly the way we need African leadership. is the moment. This climate crisis cannot be solved without Africa engaged in leveraging her green resources. Absolutely. You're part of a movement to restore 100 million hectares of land by 2030. It sounds vast, sounds ambitious, but absolutely possible. For you, what is at stake if we fail? Well, everything at stake. The future of our countries is at stake. The climate crisis is waiting for nobody. So I think we absolutely have no choice in this matter. We have to lead. We have to ensure that we transform economically. We cannot adapt against abject poverty. And so the levels of poverty that we see today are absolutely unacceptable. And yet we know we are not poor. We are not poor countries. We are not poor people. So we absolutely have to change that dynamic. Hmm. where do you think real change comes from? is it from systems reforms? Is it from bold leadership or shift in culture? what... I think all those you need. You need good leadership. Leadership is crucial because it leads and guides. Absolutely. there's this sense that women are the backbone of Africa's economy. And yet women remain the most excluded from like capital, land ownership, decision making. What will it take to restructure the architect of wealth creation? in Africa to include women not just as beneficiaries but also as a core part of it. when you look at sectors like food, women are the producers of the food we consume. 70 % of all farmers on the continent are women, and yet they're the hungriest and the poorest. And so that sort of dynamic has got to change. And I think it's about inclusion, it's about investing in women, it's about land ownership, it's about tenure, and who owns what and who can leverage what land. So there's a lot of work to be done around that. the fundamentals of ownership and of leveraging and investing and ensuring that women have the tools they need to unleash their highest and greatest opportunities. But I think it's true that uh women's leadership is more and more enshrined in constitutions across the continent, in ours, for example. And so we're seeing more and more women in positions of leadership. We're seeing more and more women putting themselves forward because that's also an issue, right? You could have the positions, but if no women put themselves forward, that's a challenge. So I think we're seeing quite a bit of change, but I know that in some of the fundamental sectors in entrepreneurship, women struggle more. Women have a harder time. All the data suggests that women have a hard time accessing capital. They have a harder time accessing collateral. And it's overall harder for women. In your work in the environment, do you find that women are more active participants or are they still on the periphery? I find women are much more centered and active and actually working against the grain and still cracking through. So really inspiring what women are doing across all sectors in business and in politics and across social services. We see women really showing up in incredible ways, more than at least perhaps the generations before. But they still face a lot of barriers. They still face challenges and biases. What is needed to shift the needle by, I'm thinking here around in order to create sustainable and measurable change, we need all actors at the table, right? I hear what you're saying around, these decisions, what culture is shifting, these conversations are moving forward, but there's still a long way to go. What type of conversations do we need to be having now and also actioning to create measurable change in the next three, five, 10 years? Oh, that's a big question. I don't know. I know for sure that we need to ensure that policies are incentivizing entrepreneurship. Policies are in place. Finance is flowing and we are not seeing 60 % of the best solar potential, but no finance invested. That we have a lot more domestic investments in local entrepreneurship. That we are investing in green infrastructure so that we can cushion ourselves against the worst impacts of climate. that really we are the architects of our own future. I think that's going to be a crucial part of how we break through. m In the work that you do now, and I know you do quite a bit, what do you find as the biggest challenge and then the biggest opportunity? I think for me right now, the biggest challenge I would argue, especially in the work that we do, is the scale of finance. It's just not enough to do the kind of work that's needed. There's very little finance. If you look at 60 % of the best solar potential on the African continent, only 3 % of all global investments in solar comes to the continent. So really, very little financing to unleash the real... opportunities that we have. I think that's a real challenge, but it's also the opportunity in a way that it is the opportunity to invest, to scale, that Africa investing in its green opportunities will help global climate, that there is no addressing global climate change without addressing Africa's or investing in Africa's green opportunities. And that I think is the opportunity and the challenge. Absolutely. I'm also reflecting on the sheer power of electrification and what it does for health, what it does for education, what it does for food. uh Because a lot of food is also lost because of storage systems that we don't have. Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk a little bit about money because you just talked about finance. Oftentimes, person, so my finance knowledge is superficial. I know I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of there's a lot of good work happening and oftentimes that work does not materialize or is not amplified as quickly as it needs to be because of financing. I guess I'm curious as to working at this intersection of the global and African context. How do we unlock financing? Or how do you think that we need to unlock more financing within the work that we do? Your work, for example, or other important work happening on the continent, where does it come from? honest Chisom I have no idea. I could say, we need more innovative finance. Well, I don't know. I really don't know on the finance side what will work. Some people are talking about carbon markets, some people are talking about, I am really a student here and I would really like to know what does it take to unleash these opportunities that we see. It's not clear to me and I need to work more with finance and economics colleagues to understand what is the pathway. What is the real pathway? I hear people talk about deeper private sector investments. We need more domestic finance mobilization. We need innovative finance. We need grants, not loans. Okay. Someone needs to help all of us understand what is the pathway through. And if I'm honest, I don't know. I don't know how it all works within an African context, but I think there is also opportunity to shift the resource or some of the resources already available in the world right now. to those contexts. think what we saw with the shutting down of USAID is so many gaps and loopholes. Now there is opportunity for different innovative financing model, but also for philanthropy for example, to come in and step in and say, okay, how do we fill this gap, this huge gap that has been left? But also there needs to be that investment from governance and African perspective where we're not always waiting for Right. to come and invest in us where we need to be investing in ourselves. So of course, I think it's like a flywheel. We need to tinker in different ways where we can. Yeah. That's the intuitive feeling, but what it takes, why it hasn't happened already. yes i think that's often the question like we know it should be this simple but of course it's never really that simple i want to ask a bit around restoration and maybe a bit around legacy. You we often talk about restoring things like forest, land. What about restoring trust in institutions? Because I think that's a big thing now within all global contexts, especially in 2025, but also within like an African context with the youth, for example. How do we go about restoring trust in institutions in our leaders? and maybe even in ourselves, do you see those as connected in any way? They are. In my world trust is earned. So it really is about creating institutions that work, showing that actually it's possible for young people to be honestly given opportunities to transform, to build businesses, to develop ideas in an ecosystem of support. And so I think it's more around how do we redeem ourselves and create those systems that can be trusted. And so there's a bit of a catch here with what comes first. But I think trust has to be earned one of the things I have to say that it's inspiring right now is the COP 30 presidency has created a process. We know that there's a whole technical stock take of how we are doing. And a lot of that has to do with a trust deficit that You know, why don't people do what they say they're going to do? You know, if you're going to provide finance and you've made these commitments, well then by golly, provide them. But you know, we also have in uh the current co-presidency a minister, Marina Silva, who the environmental minister, who's really been focused as well on the global ethical stock take She said that the environmental crisis is not a crisis of technical expertise or knowledge. It's a crisis of ethics and values. It's a crisis of trust. uh that deficit we need to talk honestly about and we need to explore how we bridge, how we build across that, even as we talk about the technical. And she's held six dialogues. The last one is going to be held next week in the US, the North America dialogue, to really explore carefully, what does it take for the breakthroughs to happen when there is trust and how do you build that trust and how do you build institutions that are trustworthy? I think that's the real work that has to be done to name it, to begin to build those bridges and see if we cannot restore the trust that allows for growth to happen. I saw an interview where you said poverty is one of the biggest hindrances, problems in Africa, which of course is true. If you envision what Africa becomes, what does it look like? Well, I would say, know, WRI Africa, where I am the managing director and Global Partnerships Lead, about catalyzing inclusive transformation for people and planet. That we can invest in systems that actually create the ecosystem of support inclusive. That means we don't have one sector of society benefiting while the other is languishing. That we have to build systems that lift everyone up. begin to wealth for the most vulnerable. And you probably heard me say poverty is the chief driver of vulnerability. Vulnerability to climate is not only because of a technical mishap, it's also because of poverty. When you are so poor, we know that the third assessment report of the IPCC said that you're 15 times more vulnerable when you're poor than when you're not. So if you live in the Netherlands and you live in Bangladesh, you are 15 times more vulnerable, even though you have the same sea level exposure. So we absolutely have to address poverty head on. And that's why green growth, climate resilient growth is so important that as we build resilience in our systems, as we adapt to the worst impacts of climate, let's do so in a way that's progressive and that is good for the climate because then we are addressing all at the same time. And we have the benefit of knowing, for example, why invest in the energy of the past when you can invest in the energy of future. That's the sort of progressive thinking that's needed, that we can look forward and at the same time leap forward and build wealth for those who are most vulnerable. The restoration economy, the forest economy, the bioeconomy is about building livelihoods and wealth and eliminating the sort of abject poverty that leads to such unfair vulnerability. Absolutely. Thanks for sharing and so apt. What is the greatest myth about Africa's development that you think needs to be dismantled if we were to move forward? If we are to move forward? that Africa needs help. What Africa really needs is genuine partnership. What does courage look like for you in this moment in a world that is both fractured and full of possibility? I think courage looks like giving, especially investing in our young population, creating ecosystems of support where they can innovate. A young person told me recently, we can do things faster and smarter than any of you. And I agree. So we need to trust them and create systems that are not blocking them but building. I love that. If you could teach the world one lesson through your work, what would it be? that nature replenishes. Yes. Okay. What have you had to unlearn or relearn in order to become the person you are today? my god, that failure is okay. Hmm, okay, okay. I like that one. Okay. What are you still becoming? Courageous, I'm still becoming courageous. There's so much that we need to do that is on the edge and building courage is a thing. I think it's like one of those ongoing process thing, you know, like you can always have more courage as you. Yes, absolutely. What are you aspiring to in your personal life? balance. Hmm, okay. And what are you aspiring to in your professional life? Balance. I love that. Yes! Hands up. Yes. Okay. And then I have a final question for you here. If you could speak to the young person you once were, what would you want her to know? And who do you hope she becomes for the future that lies ahead? So this question has two parts. my God, if I could speak to my younger self, I would say, do what you love. Like if really in the end, it adds up and it meets, just do what you love to do. It's never that serious, like. So if I loved music, I just do music and then we'll see where it takes us. uh very serious younger person? You know, but you're always wondering whether you're doing the right thing. But the answer is always yes. It's what you love to do. In fact, if you're not doing what you love, that's not the right thing. Absolutely. I hope to continue to champion the most vulnerable. I want to be a champion of the most vulnerable amongst us and to continue to build ecosystems of support that eliminate the sort of vulnerability we see. Hmm, thanks for sharing that. I just want to ask about hope What gives you hope? Oh, don't have a choice but to be hopeful. I think that the giving up is not an option. We have to be hopeful for a generation that is behind us, that is looking up to us, that we must deliver for. Hope is non-negotiable. I think we have no choice. that I reflected a lot about hope recently and I'm thinking hope is a strategy because without hope, yeah, without hope, it's, I don't know. I think without hope, it's just, it's chaos. You know, we have to continue hoping. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing. Really appreciate it. was great fun. Thanks so much. Thank you. I'm going to stop the recording now. Thank you for spending time with us on Overnight Wisdom. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you pause, please like, leave a comment, or share it with someone who needs to hear it. You can follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're feeling generous, a rating, or review, goes a long way in helping others find us too. Until next time, stay curious, stay tender, and may the wisdom you need find you exactly when you're ready.