Rejection as Fuel for Success - TwinsDntBeg

In the next episode of Overnight Wisdom, we sit with Ghanaian creative duo TwinsDntBeg - Samuel and Emmanuel Appiah Gyan - whose photography has not only captured presidents and celebrities but also the vibrant pulse of African identity.

From rejected music demos to the halls of global influence, their journey is one of relentless reinvention, cultural reclamation, and visual storytelling rooted in purpose.

We explore how rejection became redirection, why African stories must be told by African lenses, and what it means to remain grounded while working at the highest levels of visibility. 

Whether advocating for youth in politics or archiving the elegance of everyday African life, Twinsdntbeg offers a powerful reminder: creativity, when anchored in belief and hardwork, becomes legacy.

This episode is for dreamers, builders, and anyone committed to betting on themselves.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
01:14 The Meaning Behind 'Twins Don't Beg'
06:55 Transition from Music to Photography
09:15 The Power of Photography in Storytelling
12:56 The African Gaze and Representation
18:52 The Power of Collaboration
22:58 Navigating Individuality and Unity
23:14 Understanding Power and Vulnerability
28:19 Shaping the Narrative of Ghana
29:36 The Intersection of Art and Politics
33:43 Ghanaian Political Landscape
36:03 Visionary Leadership in Ghana
38:10 The Role of Youth in Politics
39:28 Standing Firm in Your Beliefs
42:05 Resilience and Hard Work
45:17 Documenting Legacy and History
47:53 Aspirations for Future Generations
51:23 Outro - Overnight Wisdom

#ghana  #TwinsDntBeg #photographers  #collaboration  #africanculture  #success #africanphotography #cinematography #creativeentrepreneurs 

Chapters

• 0:00 The Meaning Behind 'Twins Don't Beg'
• 0:00 Introduction and Background
• 6:55 Transition from Music to Photography
• 9:15 The Power of Photography in Storytelling
• 12:56 The African Gaze and Representation
• 18:52 The Power of Collaboration
• 22:58 Navigating Individuality and Unity
• 23:14 Understanding Power and Vulnerability
• 28:19 Shaping the Narrative of Ghana
• 29:36 The Intersection of Art and Politics
• 33:43 Ghanaian Political Landscape
• 36:03 Visionary Leadership in Ghana
• 38:10 The Role of Youth in Politics
• 39:28 Standing Firm in Your Beliefs
• 42:05 Resilience and Hard Work
• 45:17 Documenting Legacy and History
• 47:53 Aspirations for Future Generations
• 51:23 Outro - Overnight Wisdom

Transcript

0:03

Welcome to Overnight Wisdom, a show where we sit with changemakers, artists, business leaders, and thinkers. Each conversation is an invitation to slow down, to go deeper, and unearth the quiet insights that shape who we are. If you're seeking honest reflections, unexpected wisdom, and a deeper understanding of what it takes to not merely survive, but to thrive. You're in the right place. Today's guests are twin brothers Sam and Emmanuel better known as twins don't beg. From the streets of Accra to the corridors of power they picked up a camera and began capturing more than just images they captured possibility. In this episode we talk about the early rejections they faced, and how they turned that pain into fuel. We explore their views on politics, leadership, and the responsibility that comes with telling powerful stories. This is a conversation about grit, vision, belief, and staying rooted no matter how high you rise. Let's get into it. Really happy to have you here Sam and Emmanuel. How are you doing today? We're doing amazing, and yourself? Doing well, thank you. Thanks for spending your Sunday afternoon with me. I'm going to jump right into things. Um I want to ask you about your name. So your name is Twins Don't Beg. Um And from what I've seen, from what I've read, uh it's somewhat of a declaration, know, not just oh a brand. So I do want to ask you in your own words, what does it mean to you now, years into your journey? Uh And What did you both have to overcome before you could actually say that with conviction? Okay, so I can confidently say that name was carved somewhere in 2008, just a year after high school and we realized that we wanted to be great in future and We loved music, we wanted to be global superstars like P-Square the dream was to be entertainers and we didn't really know we going to be photographers. So after high school we moved to our big sister's place in Tema, which is another part of... greater Accra, And that was actually the hub of music in Ghana, the creativity of Afrobeat and highlife music and all the new genres of music. So we're part of that culture. And we're also lucky to be around. Superstars you see now from Sarkodie to all these big artists we happen to be around them. 10, 15 years ago. We wanted to be musicians so bad. So right after senior high school, we decided to step into the studio as recording artists. And we recorded a few demos. And that time you put it on the CDs, so we we did that and we took it to a few producers and one producer actually listened to our song and he told us that we didn't have any talent and we think that yeah we think that if we sing in a bathroom think we have talent and we are coming to disturb him and he threw our CD at us and that really was one of the moments we never forget. And when we got back home that evening, we were like, you know what, we know we are going to be great in future but we don't know how we're going to be great. We're looking for names that would represent us as artists and we're like, you know what, we're twins and we hate begging so why don't we call ourselves the twins who don't beg and that name has motivated us and been with us throughout our journey till now so I think that name should be how many years old like... 17 years? From 2008 to 2025 uh 2008 to 2025 we need to check yeah i need to check how old that name is you know so that is how the name came about it's 17 17 wow damn yeah wow so that is how the name came about it out of pain and rejection and hurt that we felt from people actually recognizing that we're going to be great in the future and we needed something that would prove to them that, hey, we're going to make it. And that name really motivated us to work hard. Imagine telling anybody that you're never going to beg. And that really pushed us to work extra, extra hard, do so many hours without stopping. I love that for y'all and it's Have you seen that person who said that thing to you since This producer - - person. Ah Yes, frankly, I don't know where he is right now you I think and I believe wherever he is right now, I'm sure he might have seen us one way or the other, thriving in our photography. So we don't remember him, we've forgotten how he looks like And he was the best thing that ever happened to us. Rejection doesn't mean that's the end of everything. Sometimes rejection actually points you to the right direction. Absolutely, absolutely. Think, you know, when I reflect on this, think, sure, it's very awful thing to say to people. Uh But I find that as well, sometimes having those detractors are the things that, you know, push us, you know, to, okay, watch me. If you think I can't do something, watch me do it. So I'm really glad that um you did not let that voice like neither of you let that voice come in the way of your glory and it's i mean of course yeah now you're doing impactful work and even just beyond perhaps what you set out to do you know, wanting to do music and then. Then what was the switch from music to photography? Like how did that come about? That's one interesting thing about our brand is that we are very versatile. And when I talk about versatility we've actually gone through a whole lot of different industries, movies, music, event organizing, and fashion, um just name it, anything that involves in the creative arts. We also became part of the production crew. One way that we also learn very fast is just by observing what is going on and also asking the right questions. We got our first camera that was in 2014 and that is when we started taking pictures and when we had the first camera we were like right now we have the cameras what's next took pictures and it was so bad to the point that we're like how do these photographers that we look we admire their photography, how do they take pictures like that. So how do we do it? We started going to photographers which they reluctantly help us, educate us on how to take amazing pictures. And we had one of the best teachers which was YouTube I feel a lot of people underestimate the power of YouTube you know so we went on there, key in whatever we want to learn and it gave us simple basic instructions because there is nothing new under the sun We were able to learn how to take certain kind of pictures and even edit. As time was going on, we started getting better at whatever we learnt on YouTube. Amazing, amazing story. Thanks for sharing. I love when you said nothing new on that, it's something that took me back to Nigeria. Know, like a lot of those things I hear and I think it also epitomizes your willingness and your ability to learn. Think it's quite remarkable all you have done, all the different spaces and for the most part, you are self-taught, with the help of YouTube and some of the other photographers who provided you with some education. So I want to, I'm reflecting on this in terms of you've been in fashion, music, so crossing lines across, I guess, arts and culture to some sense, why did you hone in on photography? Why was that the choice for the two of you? And... was there ever a point where Sam is like, no, I'm not sure. And Manuel is like, yeah, maybe, maybe not. Like, how did you hone in on this? Why this? Well, I mean, I can confidently say. Share the same interests we've done the same thing our parents who say anytime you are rebelling against them do like is both of us so it's difficult for them to punish both of us you know so we've been doing the same thing we have always shared the same interests we've been able to equally do the same things at the same time so that helped and we started actually capturing the early days of music festivals, the music awards in Ghana and all these top events in Ghana and every time after the event. Our images went viral. We developed strategies on how we're going to market our images and that also really helped. And one thing about us that we learn every day, we keep on updating our skills and our knowledge in the field of photography and that always keeps on pushing us to the next level. So that's what built our huge social media presence online. And once this started working, we started replicating this in other African countries. I remember we saved some money and we invested and we went to Uganda in 2018. And that exposed us to so many artists from Uganda. That is where we met Eddy Kenzo and all these big artists from East Africa and we connected to Kenya, we went to Rwanda, to South Africa, Nigeria, Zimbabwe. Morocco, we started planting our seedlings in every country. And that has exposed us to the African continent. Beyond Ghana Oh, I love that. And I also, have to say, I also really like just how, and I mean this wholeheartedly, how humble you both are. And at the same time, I also really just love that agency that you have. You know, when you talk about, we started this work in Ghana and then we took ourselves, to Uganda and Rwanda and Nigeria and then Morocco and then North America and then Europe. I think it's really cool. And it's so important that even for myself and I think for others listening, you know, that they understand the agency we have to create for ourselves, to go to places that we probably will not have not previously imagined and just to believe that we can. So I really loved that. Just listening to you talk, I'm like, I really like. That strong sense of self, that you know you've done this, you've put in the work, you've worked your butt off, but you did this with favor, with grace, but both of you did this work. So super proud of you all and really great work for what you've done so far When we spoke a couple of weeks ago, we talked about the African gaze, because I think was Sam I was speaking to, and Sam you had said, why are you doing this podcast, right? And I told you some of the reasons why, and I think we connected on that African gaze in particular. And when it comes to photography, as somebody who's lived a significant part of our in the West, you know, but also very much ingrained and rooted in African continent. I do see that much of Africa has been photographed through someone else's lens, usually a white lens, usually a Western lens. And they generally tell one to maximum three stories and none of them, you know, dignifies for the most part the African people or the African continent. You know, so I want to ask you, When you photograph Ghanian leaders or public figures as you talked about, what are you really trying to restore or to reclaim in how power and identity are seen? We've captured so many African leaders and we've seen so many African legends. And what an honor to use our our lens to tell the African dream. That is why we even named our company, Swag of Africa. And we had to use our camera to tell the story. We've been trying to project the continent, you know, in a very beautiful way. We are telling our own story. We are carving our own narrative. We are capturing Africa in real life and telling Africa as what it is Africa is a very beautiful continent Our colors are vibrant Our food is beautiful. Our food is amazing. Our people are welcoming Our women are beautiful our men are strong and and confident not like how the Western people You know perceive us to be and that is the story the kind of story that we are telling every day Anytime you post an image it is to project Africa. To the world we are not trying to convince the Western People we're just sharing our culture to the rest to the rest of the world So in capturing our leaders we always say our leaders in Africa, the reason why we've not developed is sometimes our leaders, but then we also have some leaders that are working so hard to change the narrative And that is why during our last election when we were working with the former vice president of Ghana who just lost an election, we told the world that we're going to win the election with photography. And that story went so viral and now it's came back to beat us because we told the story of that personality how much he loved the country and how much he wanted to you know change the narrative of Ghana and since it didn't go in his way people are using the statements that we made against us and they are laughing at us but hey, it's part of the cross we need to carry so we work hard for him to become the next president of the Republic of Ghana so we have to still keep on telling his story before he becomes the president so that is our next major... achievements we are looking forward to achieve with photography. I love that. Love that. I ever run for office anywhere, I will come find y'all. So you can tell that story with me and we see how we do. I remember we did work with one lady, Magdela Cooper, who was running for president in Liberia. We took her images and that was very impactful. But now she's not the president of Liberia, but she's holding a are in a very huge position in government in Liberia So that is the kind of story we are telling with our African leaders and also all the personalities from the musicians to the creatives to every legend that we've worked with. And I think for the people who coming back to say, hey, you said something and it didn't happen, I the lesson, at least what I'm reflecting on now, the lesson there is also these people are still out there doing something. You know, the fact that somebody does not become the president now doesn't mean it will not happen in the future. But nonetheless, it's nonetheless, it's at least they are out there doing something, trying to create something better. And I think there's also something quite remarkable about believing doesn't necessarily mean that it always has to happen what you want to see. But I think the fact that you're are both willing to say this is what I would want, this is what I want to bring into the world, this is what I want to manifest into the world, I think that's super brave. So I mean, I mean if anyone is listening who made fun of you or they should probably rethink it and like reframe making the fun when We make him the president. We can have enough to say and jubilate about. And the more fun they make about us, the more we work harder. Yeah, use it as fuel, right? It's kind of like the fuel and the petrol that gets you going. Going. Yeah, all the time. I love that. Think, you know, the more I talk to people, what Africans doing great things and like rewriting the narrative, reframing stories, I think it takes all of us to collectively do that in our own little ways. Okay. So I do want to uh ask you because I mean, you're brothers, you're twins, you collaborate and you create this process together and you're two individuals, but you create as one. So I do want to ask as, you know, identical twins and creative partners, how do you balance your individuality your unity and what do each of you bring that the other doesn't? Say is our success is as a result of the power of collaboration. It's the power of two. And that is why I always advise anybody who comes to me that no single man can make it alone. You can never make it alone. I've not seen any millionaire who said I did it all by myself. No, I mean people are lucky to have one time success, but people who really build something that became a generational legacy had always done that with a team. So we believe in working together and we are also very different you know even in appearance and all that but one thing that has made us see together is we have we know the end goal and we always put our differences aside and always work together to achieve that. We sometimes disagree on certain kind of things but that doesn't stop us from agreeing at a common point and moving past our individual differences and making it happen. That is what we've been doing and that is how we've been able to still stick together um for all this time. Doing this together. So the power of two of collaboration, So in terms of, thanks for sharing that, think, you know, I think you, you make such an important point about collaboration and building anything, you know, it's, anyone can come up with an idea, you know, it's the people behind it that bring it to life and no one is an island, right? We always need people to build, to create. And if we have a sibling, even better if we have a twin I guess that that's even more yeah so um but I do want to see like is there something that you each bring that is different you know say reflect on some of my siblings you know where one person is maybe calmer or more strategic another person can be more pragmatic uh like on the ball When it comes to me and my brother, I am the one who is chasing like when you see both of us I'll be the first to walk up to you and have a conversation with you my brother is also a bit laid back, but he also handles all our documentations. I'm the way I'll miss our passport. He knows how to organize that stuff. And I also know how to organize, you know, other stuff that we also work on, putting the event and everything together. And he's more on the documentation side and the paperwork and so we on the other side we also have things that we are all comfortably great at with time we managed to know what each other know each role each other is playing and that has made it easy I love that. So essentially, he's the organized one in so many ways, making sure you get where you need to get. I'm in charge of the equipment. I make sure the equipment are not missing. The batteries are charged. The files are copied. I'm chasing production money and all that. Book keeping Yeah, yeah. That's a really good compliment though. It's nice that you both have that great balance and you support each other where you need to and you kind of know what you're strong at and you pursue that. That's really nice to hear. You know, I was just thinking every now and then I say to myself, uh would be nice just to one more. And I'm just like, this is the perfect scenario, isn't it? It's like you both have each other and This is great. Do want to ask about, themes around purpose and power and also the public life, know, because you do have a very public facing profession. And you have photographed, political and cultural power. I know you photographed like presidents and, you know, mega superstars like Jamie Foxx. Um But through your lens, What does power actually feel like, you know? And how do you make space for vulnerability even in your most commanding portraits? Um I think uh one thing that you always notice about us is sees how down to earth and humble that we are, no matter where we find ourselves in the world. And I think the only answer to that is that we've seen the rise and fall of a lot of people, so kind of like taking cue on how to even act especially like on our daily lives no matter where we find ourselves and basically we've applied that in our lives and I think like it's radiate into every part of uh the industry that we find ourselves. So even if we're taking pictures of the president, you see me in town or he might bump into us at the mall and you mention our name and I'm definitely or we're definitely turning around to say hi. Nice to meet you. Somebody might probably see you just be like, I love your work so much. You just have to turn around and just be like, thank you so much. Say hi, have a conversation. Have a conversation. We've kind of like placed a lot of strategies in our lives that make us always. Get in touch with the core people that nobody would even think of, especially when it gets to the heights that we've been able to attain. We go to senior high schools to have conversations with the younger generation. We go to the universities to have uh conversations with these... Amazing upcoming generation and what that also tends to bring to us is that It's points direction to how people see us it tends to point to us that what do people also expect from us So basically when we able to gather all these kind of information It kind of determines who we are right now, what we always have to do, especially how far we've been able to go with our photography. And also one thing I can add is that we've seen power, we've tasted power, we know how easily you can lose power at any time. Power can just slip out of your hands and you can become one of the most miserable... person on earth. So this actually, you know, humbles us. And we also know where we are coming from. We've come very far and where we came from was very humble and that has never changed. Wherever we've been or whatever we've done has never really changed who we really are. So we've seen power, we've tasted power. Power is one of the most beautiful things to experience, but we always know how to maintain very good relationship with people don't burn bridges don't use your power to intimidate other people always make sure that you use that power to build to invest in people and give people opportunities We've invested in so many people, And there are so many people that we can also point hands and just tell them that these are the people that came to study from us, came to learn from us. We hosted them in our house. We had about four, almost five people staying with us. You know, they were students from University of Education, Wunibah, which is also in Central Region, and some of them were also not based in Accra, and we had them in our house, in our homes. Let them be part of our crew And right now I can point and be proud that we've been able to produce very confident cinematographers and videographers and photographers and they are all doing amazing wherever they find themselves right now. So yeah, we've done a lot. I don't think we're going to stop. We're just going to be who we are until God takes us to the next level that he wants us to go. But we're just always going to be for the people, with the people, by the people Absolutely. I really love just what you say about the importance of being humble and humility, you know, no matter where you are. I think that remembering where you come from, but also just being kind to people, you know, taking that time to acknowledge somebody who said hello or, never thinking you're too cool for school, so to say. And I really love that. Because that is a really great way to remain grounded in who you were, in your values, in the culture, in the home, in kind of how you were raised. So that's really lovely to hear. on kind of the images that you take. Is there something you haven't done that you still want to do? It, is it a personal portrait, historical, maybe even an imagined one that you haven't captured yet and you would like to capture? I there is a lot for us to achieve as photographers and maybe there are goals that we've been able to set for ourselves that we've not been able to achieve. As my brother said earlier on, what we are currently working on so much with our strength, our brand, our energies to make sure that his excellence, Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia becomes the next president and the wife Samira Bawumia becomes the next first lady of Ghana. Why are we working so hard? Because we believe in his ideologies, believe in his visions - we believe in his policies that he's been able to set and we've listened to a lot of lectures from him one of the criticisms that we receive from a lot of people is that why don't we concentrate on our photography and our brand and why are we trying to dilute it or why are we trying to spoil it with politics? And I think I want to emphatically say on this platform that if you are a young person and you develop an in politics there's nothing absolutely wrong with it and there's nothing wrong to also not be interested in whatever happens in your country and somebody might also just tell you that you guys are photographers why I are you contributing something to politics. And that's the reason why my brother and I are very interested in politics. We are in politics because we want to use politics to influence change. We want to also contribute whatever our knowledge is to make changes that will also help improve the lives of the people. And since knowledge is not in only on one man's head We can also be able to contribute our quota, in the creative arts industry that we find ourselves in. What can we also contribute into telling His Excellency Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia - So if we're even advising, we can also use our understanding and also our influence to make sure that we shape policies and that's one reason why we are very very interested in politics right now and what can we also do to contribute to that change? We want to use our photography to tell the story of m how politicians can be trusted, how politicians also want to use their policies to also affect change. And we do that by taking the right pictures and also putting in the right story, right caption, and posting it on social media. Since right now everybody's on social media. So, and that's the reason why right now we are very, very passionate about politics. And we also support the candidacy of His Excellency Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia Hmm. Thank you for sharing. There's a lot there I wanted to unpack. A few things coming up for me first is, you know, oftentimes the people I know, ah sometimes now the people I talk to, there's often this idea that people can only be one thing. So when you say people are saying to you, you are photographers, how about you stay in your lane? You know, why go into politics or whatever else? Politics or whatever else? I think to realize that we are more than one thing and we can have more than one interest and multiple realities can coexist beautifully. I'm a person who I do a lot of different things and all those different things, different versions of myself that I'm absolutely passionate about. And I think if each one of us are able to actually look inside and say, and say, have so many interests and the ones that are burning most currently in this season of my life, I want to pursue. And I think that is important that we allow other people the space and the grace to do the same. I think there's something limiting about telling people to stay in their lanes, it's silences, whatever voice they have. And I'm glad that you all have not listened. to those voices, that tell - you don't pursue something else.- - So since you've talked about Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia a couple of times now, you talked about his ideologies and you talked about his can you share one or two ideologies or vision that uh that makes you believe that this is the person to lead Ghana into the next phase? In Ghana have somehow. Digitized economy than most parts of Africa due to his visions like I think Ghana is one of the first African countries to have mobile money intra portability where you can send money across every network. We also have the zipline And this zipline is a drone delivery system set up by the former vice president. No matter where you are in Ghana, if let's say you have a snake bite and a call is placed to an emergency number, and you're taken to the hospital. Don't have a snake venom they can call the zipline service in a matter of minutes a drone can deliver the antivenom to whatever hospital And Ghana is one of the first African countries to have that kind of system set up here. Imagine someone is a pregnant woman is giving birth and lost so much blood and they don't have any blood in one of the most rural communities in Ghana. The drone can deliver blood within minutes. We have something called the Ghana Card since we got independence till now we didn't have any form of identification. As Ghanians and he was the one who was able to champion that and that has significantly increased the security and the stability of identifying people and now you can get your fingerprints taken just because we had a visionary vice president who was able to such initiatives into the system. We always sometimes wonder why is Ghana one of the safest countries in Africa. It's because of these security measures that have been put in place. CCTVs all over Ghana, traffic lights, have uh an electronic gate at the airport, have... You know, a very, um, digitized economy. You basically have all your money on your phone, mobile money, and all this was enhanced and improved when he became the vice president and he chaired also the economic, committee of the country. And he's done amazing, as a vice president. And I believe being a vice president was limiting how impactful he was and being a president for himself he'll be able to do much more for Ghana and some of his initiatives and policies have been adopted in in Canada like the gold for oil program that is backing our currency that has made Ghana's currency currently as one of the most strongest currencies in the world and these are all policies that he put in place that has made Ghana what it is at the moment and since independence he's been one of the best serving vice presidents which is currently on record so that's why we strongly believe in him and we've put our lenses and our visions also behind him we say pictures never lie. So we need to be there to document, archive. And we've also seen ourselves as archivists and we archive in everything that he's doing and sharing with the rest of the world. Hmm. Thanks for sharing. Yes, it's always really nice to hear about. I mean, I've been talking to a lot of Africans lately and I see just how politically engaged, socially engaged, culturally engaged a lot of people are. And it's heartwarming, you know, and I think irrespective of, you know, political affiliation or even agreements. I think one of the things that warms my soul is to see that we, in some sense, at least a lot of people I'm talking to, have a very active role in wanting to participate in the future they want to see. Um So it's really nice to hear a bit more about you support it. Uh I mean, it sounds like really great uh policies that Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia is putting forth in the world. You know, of course, pictures and images can also rewrite stories. And I think for me, as an African, know, I just, my hope is that we continue to have leaders that are deserving of all of us. Know, Africa is the youngest continent in the world in terms of population. You know, in four people by 2050 will be Africans. So I really hope that we continue to have leaders that are deserving of the roles and the responsibilities that they have. So thanks for sharing more about that. Question back to the two of you in terms of now you've gone through, you've had a lot of experience building, creating, building your brand. What is something you no longer apologize for? You know, what's one part of your identity or process, your vision? That you used to shrink or over explain or even explain away but now you fully stand inside? What is something that you're no longer sorry for? Well, I think to answer that it's still going to take us back to how politically exposed we are right now, When people just saw us as just photographers to the wife of the vice president, it just feels like we're doing our work. And we are kind of neutral just offering services for a client but I think right now what we are not sorry for is that we openly now supporting their candidature and we are also openly letting people know that we're not just hiding behind a client-photographer relationship, but also backing our brand, especially letting everybody know that we are very interested in whatever happens and goes on in our country, and we are not sorry for being politically inclined. So we noticed a lot of people hide behind neutrality to make certain kind of remarks as if they really care about the country. Trust me, nobody is neutral. Everybody has an agenda that they always want to hide. So that's one thing that we're not sorry about right now. We are so happy about making our stand. Glad to hear that. Am glad you are no longer. Yeah, that you're standing firm in your values, your beliefs, your opinions. Think oftentimes when people talk about being neutral, know, neutrality is a statement, know, sometimes it means you don't. Play both sides or you are not confident enough to take a decision. Neutrality is also a position. And I think neutrality is not necessarily always the goal and it shouldn't be the goal. I've been reflecting a lot in. Especially in 2025 and the current geopolitical environment that we are collectively experiencing globally. And this is the year where at least for me, I think I am more political. You know, I'm taking stand. I'm speaking truth to power in terms of how it aligns with me and my values. And, you know, people do not have to agree, but point in time for the things I want to see in the world, I owe it to myself to at least voice it out. So kudos for standing in your truth and standing in your power. Think we can all learn something from that. Sam, I want to come to you first. If younger Sam could see you now, what would he say? One would leave him in awe. And I want you to speak for yourself separate from Emmanuel because I'm going to come to Emmanuel as well. Well, I would have told younger Sam to work harder than he did did Okay Okay. Because what would you do if you knew you wouldn't fail? Would you not work harder if you had assurance of success I like that. What would he do if he knew he wouldn't fail? I really love that. Okay, Emmanuel I come to you If young Emmanuel could see you now, what would he say to you? And what would leave him amazed? I I would have told the younger Emmanuel to read more and learn a whole lot of stuff - Because reading comes with gaining a lot of knowledge. Imagine if we were able to learn so much different languages. Learn how to do different stuff. Probably by now all those things would have come in hand. For example, if we're so fluent in French, anytime that we're working in Paris, it wouldn't be fumbling and just speaking two by three kind of French. Maybe we, I would just tell the younger - Emmanuel, to maybe we could have used all that time when we growing up. To probably learn more languages, read more books, learn how to do more things. Basically that would have made our lives way more simpler than we are right now Do you mean easier in terms of like how you can communicate in different places? Okay. We go to a lot of Franco phone countries, Senegal, Ivory Coast Paris. Sometimes it's like, bro, can you you speak English? We still understand French, but not to the point that Yeah. We we we want right now. I mean but the beauty about what you've been able to do so far means that you can learn and you will continue to learn. So, yes, it'd be nice to be fluent right now but you might be fluent in three years. Yeah. I love that. Question for you quickly about resilience. I mean, I can imagine that it's not, it hasn't just been an easy ride, right? You know, I think sometimes when people see you now and see the success that you have, oftentimes people don't see the blood, the sweat that goes behind the work, the hustle, you know, everything you've helped to build. And yes, you have each other and it's nice to have that support system. But what has helped you through the difficult periods of your life or your careers? How do you engage with resilience? Or what has supported you through it all? Well, I think if you know what the future holds, if you know how interesting and successful the future is going to be, there's no way you're going to... not work hard towards it because once you know that if we put so much effort into it that would make whatever we want in life to come as fast as we want then we're going to put in the work right now because there's always light at the end of the tunnel and I've never seen anybody who works hard and always kind of like failed in life even if it takes years you're still going to get whatever you want so that's one reason why we are always resilient and always pushing forward because we that the future is always bright. And some have grown to believe that we are just popular from nowhere and we are who we are just because of an overnight success and they fail to recognize the kind of hard work we've put in. So sometimes we have had to just remind some people that we've been around for a while, we've been around for a minute and we've actually worked hard from the scratch and built this thing that you are seeing today as an overnight success and that is kind of the resilience you know we are pushing and and some of the resistance we need to even overcome to for people to still respect you for the kind of work that you've put in and that is a very difficult thing to do. Currently So we are working on our first book which hopefully should be ready maybe before the end of the year if everything works out. Amazing. That's so exciting. Is it like a is it's going to like a autobiography or is it going to be more? Like a picture book? Yeah, photography book. But then someone's biography. You'll have to let me know when it's out. Yeah. So I can add that link where people can find it on this podcast because I imagine some people will find it at later points. And you can also fly into the book launch as well. Yeah, I'd love that. Absolutely. Just invite me. I will come. I love What I'm also hearing, you know, just from how you reflect on this, think what is evidence is the value of hard work and how... where it has gotten the two of you. And I think that's so important because no one is an overnight success. You know, people don't see the work that goes. Mean, success takes work. And then sustaining that success takes even more work, you know. I really appreciate the agency that both of you exude. You know, I love that. Um I think it's so important to have that self-belief because um the world is kind, but also sometimes the world is not. And in so many ways, people are going to tell you that you're not enough or you're doing this or you're not doing that. You know, but having that confidence to move forward no matter what, I can only applaud. So thank you for sharing your story. And final question I have for you all is, for your future self, you know, when you think about the legacy you're building, what do you want, Emmanuel and Sam 10 years from now, 20 years from now to know, when you look back on this very day that you were hanging out here, which is so chatting, you know, what do you hope to see? Well, we hope photography becomes. Major discipline, young kids will say, hey, I want to be a photographer when I grow up. That is what we want to achieve. We want kids to wake up and say, I want to be a photographer. Not every African. Kid will say I want to be a doctor, want to be a nurse, I want to be a lawyer, but we want people, kids, to confidently say that I want to be a photographer when I grow up. So that's what we are working towards - I really love that. And I think especially like from that African perspective where it's great to be a lawyer, an engineer, a doctor, and what's the other one, a business person, you know, like to actually start that's nice to have people aspiring to like professions in the creative space, so yes, I think that's a beautiful legacy to build. Um. Uh Is there anything else as we close out, is there anything else you both would like to say? Is there something you haven't said today that you would like to share with us? Today Well, thank you for recognizing what we do. Spending time to do this with us and we're looking forward to build more solid relationship with you and impacts on Africa and keep doing what you're doing. I know how difficult it is but just keep on doing what you're doing the end goal is to all come together as young people in Africa to project Africa and tell the African story. African dream and yeah we're looking forward to being hosted in Norway as you mentioned. Yes, yes I'd love that. Thank you so much. Thank you for the encouragement and thank you for spending your afternoon with me. So yeah I'm forward to the next time we chat. Thank you both. Thank you for spending time with us on Overnight Wisdom. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you pause, please like, leave a comment, or share it with someone who needs to hear it. You can follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're feeling generous, a rating, or review, goes a long way in helping others find us too. Until next time, stay curious, stay tender, and may the wisdom you need find you exactly when you're ready.