The Audacity to Be: Reclaiming Joy, Belonging and Voice with Lola Akinmade

Today’s guest is Lola Akinmade, a Nigerian-born, U.S. raised and Sweden-based author, travel storyteller, photographer, and creative force whose work moves across borders and hearts. Through her bestselling novels, award-winning photography, and global expeditions, Lola captures the fullness of life with honesty, reverence, and grace.

But more than just documenting the world, Lola writes and photographs to help us see each other more clearly, to create connection in a time of deep fragmentation. Whether she’s writing about the complexities of Black womanhood in Europe or reflecting on what it means to carry your voice across geographies, Lola does so with a kind of quiet courage that invites us to be more honest with ourselves.

She is a National Geographic Explorer, founder of Geotraveler Media, and author of In Every Mirror She’s Black, Everything Is Not Enough and most recently, Bitter Honey. But more than her accolades, it is her unwavering commitment to truth and her belief in storytelling as a sacred act that makes her unforgettable.

Lola joins us today not just as a guest, but as a mirror — for those of us who have ever felt othered, muted, or unsure of where we belong.

From listening to this episode with Lola Akinmade, you will gain:

• A Deep Understanding of Voice and Belonging
• Insight into the Sacredness of Storytelling
• Permission to Rest and Reclaim Joy
• Clarity on Navigating Identity in Global Spaces
• Reflections on Legacy, Integrity, and Enoughness:
• Wisdom on Creativity and Career:

You will walk away with grounded, practical, and soul-deep advice about standing firm in purpose, resisting dilution, and thriving without assimilation.

To connect with Lola or order her books: https://www.lolaakinmade.com/books/

Chapters

00:00 Intro

01:09 The Journey of Connection

02:51 The Power of Storytelling

06:45 Silence and Storytelling

10:05 Writing as a Therapeutic Process

13:58 Navigating Duality in Storytelling

17:32 Belonging and Home

20:51 The Complexity of Identity and Safety

25:15 Moments of Transformation

29:52 The Burden of Representation

33:33 Legacy and Impact

37:04 Seasons of Courage

42:29 Wisdom in Stillness

48:38 Finding Your Why

51:52 Outro

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:09 The Journey of Connection
• 2:51 The Power of Storytelling
• 6:45 Silence and Storytelling
• 10:05 Writing as a Therapeutic Process
• 13:58 Navigating Duality in Storytelling
• 17:32 Belonging and Home
• 20:51 The Complexity of Identity and Safety
• 25:15 Moments of Transformation
• 29:52 The Burden of Representation
• 33:33 Legacy and Impact
• 37:04 Seasons of Courage
• 42:29 Wisdom in Stillness
• 48:38 Finding Your Why
• 51:52 Outro

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to Overnight Wisdom, a show where we sit with change-makers, artists, business leaders, and thinkers. Each conversation is an invitation to slow down, to go deeper, and unearth the quiet insights that shape who we are. If you're seeking honest reflections, unexpected wisdom, and a deeper understanding of what it takes to not merely survive, but to thrive. You're in the right place. Today's guest is Lola Akinmade an award-winning author and National Geographic photographer whose work centers voice, belonging and truth. In this episode, we talk about what it means to write with reverence, to resist dilution and to choose rest as an act of courage. Lola doesn't just tell stories. She creates space for others to be seen, whole and unfiltered. This is a conversation about reclaiming joy, legacy, and the importance of standing in your power. Let's begin. Hi Lola, how are you doing? I'm doing great, and yourself? I'm doing all right. Really happy to see you. Yeah. Ah It's, you know, in preparing for this call, I was thinking about how we actually met each other. Because I think in the whole spectrum of things, we've actually not known each other for like many, many years. Even though I feel like I've known you for a decade. Yeah. So I kind of went down like a rabbit's hole trying to figure out when was the first time we connected and then all the messages were, you know, not really from the first time we connected, but I figured this will be fun by tossing it to you. Like, how did we meet? Do you remember? It was LinkedIn, but I think it was the second year of the summit. Know, somebody from your team reached out to see if I wanted to come be involved and I think from there it just organically kind of blossomed. Yeah, the cuz last second year of the summit and you know One of my team had found you and they wrote you but you couldn't join us that year You were going on a trip to Mongolia and then you had said to us, but invite me next time and then I think we reached out next time, of course, and you were able to join. And then we kept connecting and then we hosted your book launch or kind of not a book launch, more like a road show in the Nordics. We hosted it in Oslo. Yes. Very nice. And here we are. And now I'm feeling like, you know, I have a big sis. You know, I call you for support, moral support, and it's been really great. So I'm so happy to have you here with me. I'm super excited for this conversation. And as you know me, I like to ask hard and deep questions when I can. Absolutely, absolutely. So in having or jumping right into the conversation, my first question to you, because you are a prolific storyteller. So what compels you to tell stories, especially when those stories are often overlooked or misunderstood? I know what compels me is actually fighting isolation, right? Because we as humans, need each other, we need community to survive. We really do. And what drives me is trying to make us understand each other so we don't exclude each other. So we can create that community, we can support each other. And that also came from my own lived experience. Where I felt isolated and excluded a lot. When I was younger, just because of who I was, just because I wasn't maybe liking the things I was supposed to like as a black woman or writing the things society said I should do. So that's what drives me is how can we create belonging? How can people feel like they have a community? And what's preventing that? What are the narratives that we're not telling about each other that's preventing? That kind of connection, that cultural connection. I like what you say about narratives, you and I think as two people who live in the Nordics, we know a lot about narratives. So for the listeners, I think it's important to say like, I live in Oslo, Norway, and Lola lives in Sweden. So I want to ask you about, your storytelling process, you know, what part of it do you consider sacred? I think once you start telling other people's then you have to do it with reverence. And that is sacred because they are giving you a piece of themselves. They are inviting you into their most private spaces so you can share their story on their behalf if they are silent or if they're still afraid to use their own voice. And that also comes from my career as a travel writer. Where I travel around the world and I have to bring back other people's So I have to do it with that sacredness, with that reverence, with that respect, because I am just being the vessel to tell their stories as transparently, as multilayered and as complex as they want to show to the world. So for me, that's the part of storytelling when I'm not telling my own story, but rather channeling. Other people's stories because they are not ready to use their own voices yet. That part is, I think it's a big privilege. That's beautiful. You talked about silence. I you just mentioned it briefly, but I want to engage that a little bit. How has writing changed your relationship to silence? And maybe first, maybe you can frame what silence actually means to you. So I think silence when it comes to storytelling is knowing when to speak or not. But when I was younger, I felt like being silent was the way to not rock boats, But then I came across Zora Neale Hurston's quotes, which I think, you know, is if you stay silent, they'll kill you until you you enjoyed it. Right. When you say silent telling about your pain, they'll kill you and say you enjoyed it. And I always say that once you find your voice as a storyteller, you stop whispering. And so for me, when it comes to storytelling and silence, there are some things that I just can't stay silent on. Especially when it has to do with my own humanity as a black woman and other people's humanity, just the rights to just exist. If that has been attacked, I can't stay silent. And so that came with age Once you realize no matter what you do, it will never be enough. If you are not part of setting those rules, so you might as well use your voice and tell your story. Otherwise, somebody will craft it on your behalf. That is correct. I think you've been really great at telling stories. Think stories that resonate across the globe. But I also just reflecting on your road show where we hosted you here in Oslo and just the black and brown women in that room just feeling seen by the things you were saying, by the stories. Mean, somebody had said it was like going to church. Because everyone was like, yes, yes. So I think it's quite remarkable. I think for people who are listening to this who are outside the Nordics, say uh in North America, in Africa, wherever. You know, one of the things to understand is that while we have a lot of great storytellers that mirror stories of Africans in Africa, or maybe even Black folk in, Europe or in the Nordics as a whole, know, Lola is our holy grail, you know, because she's telling and talking about our stories, you know, and I think it's so important, especially in the system where silence have been so, you know, present and insidious. So people kind of just accept that, okay, so we're not going to talk about this. And then then comes Lola and she's telling the stories bravely. And so yes, thank you for that on behalf of every black and brown girl around. Much. Thank you. I do want to lean in a bit about your writing because I can imagine that writing is a process of unraveling. You know, I see myself unraveling this year. I'm writing a lot more. So I want to ask you what has surprised you by what your writing has revealed to you? Even something that you weren't ready to face. Many authors say that writing can be very therapeutic. It's your own way of therapy. It's one way of saying the things you experienced were real by writing it down. So even though the stories I write are not specifically about my own experience, my life is sprinkled all over in those stories as well. And for me, writing it out is accepting, okay, these are the things I may be settled for. These are the things I maybe didn't stand up when I should have stood up. These are the places where I compromised, sacrificed or self shrunk. Three different things, right? So in as much as I write for others to feel validated and seen and not feel like they are always gas-lit, it's also for me to reaffirm that yes, this is also my own truth. This is my own experience in many ways and a way of reclaiming and saying once you know better, you do better as well. Know, and so that's kind of what the writing does for me as well is it's way of growing and evolving and my own mini therapy as well. That's beautiful. Well, you write across geographies and you literally take people across the world, right? I guess in terms of those identities that you center, whose gaze are you writing towards and whose gaze are you resisting? Actually just writing the truth right so once you write the truth transparently then it's there's always context so I’m not writing for any gaze I’m just writing the truth transparently within different contexts and then for example my first book in every mirror she's black some people said they didn't like that I was centering the white guy I’m like there's no reason black women are going to come to the Nordics if not one, they fall in love with a white dude, two, either for work or as a refugee. That centering him, it wasn't even centered, right? It's more of showing how white supremacy permeates all aspects of society. My life as a travel writer, I always say, don't tell you that Italy is beautiful. Go to Italy. I have to show you through words. So I have to describe, you know, the ringing of the cathedrals, the pigeons flapping across the, you know, the square, the sounds of somebody yelling, Bella, you know, I have to describe all those things. So you are immersed in the story and then come up with your own verdict. That Italy is beautiful to go visit, right? And so that's what I do in my stories. I don't write for any gaze. I just tell the truth and I just share the stories as transparently as possible and I think what makes my writing kind of interesting is it triggers a lot of people. So it triggers a lot of people's shadow work they need to deal with, you know? And I think that's... one of the beauties of just being an author writing the stories that trigger people is that it's also showing, it's lifting a mirror to us to address some of our own biases or prejudices or why is this character that's living a soft life triggering me? Or why is this character that wants to be a career woman, why is she triggering me? And so it's forcing us to also deal with ourselves. Hmm on triggers and I think I guess when your work triggers people to you know both extremes and every gray shade in the middle I guess my question for you is how do you navigate that duality of being both celebrated, because I know you're incredibly celebrated, but also scrutinized as a black woman? And also if you can frame that within a global literary space, what does that feel like? I was younger, I probably would have cared. But now there's only one way I can grow up in life. And that is fully and authentically myself. And if that draws criticism from other people, fine. That's not my camp, If that makes other people feel validated or recently somebody wrote to me and said, thank you so much for your voice. Because you use your voice, I have started using mine. What more can an author get? That's the most incredible thing is by you standing up and using your own voice, it's letting people say they can use their voice because that's the only thing you kind of have left, right. And if you are in any space that wants to take your voice as an exchange for maybe like upward mobility, then it's that's on you to choose what you want to do. So for example, When I first moved into Sweden, you know, I kind of did all the right things integrating, you know, and I am well integrated. I'm just not assimilated. They are two different things. Right. And so I was moving up, you know, making the contacts until I got to a point where I started realizing. I was going to have to give something up, which was my voice. And I always said that the higher you move in a place that requires assimilation. The less of who you are. You are. Right? And so I was already to just give up my voice to keep rising up the ranks in a society that wants me to fully assimilate and be. And so those are the things that you have to kind of think about, you know, as you kind of live your life, live your truth as a storyteller. And the stories you share is do you want to keep your voice even though it might close some doors to you. You know, and I'll give you an example. My first book, we've got so many rejections because I didn't want to dilute my voice. Now I'm on my third novel and I'm writing whatever I want. This means saying my second novel I could write freely. My third novel is even more, it could probably provoke even more on another level. But because I didn't compromise in the beginning to dial my voice, to make myself more palatable, you know, for a white gaze, now I can write the stories I just, I really truly want to write because I fought that battle in the beginning. I guess there's a lesson there for all of us as well, right? Sometimes standing your ground and holding onto your authentic voice might mean a lot of no's, but eventually a door will open. And when you stand fast, when you hold the line, then it's easier with the next thing and anything after that. If you give it up, in beginning, then you just continue to give it up. And eventually, I think one day you wake up, you look at yourself in the mirror, and you're not quite sure who's looking back at you. At least that's what I'm taking from that. Yeah. Oh Know, and I said that if you keep breaking yourself into pieces for other people's consumption, you're never going to be enough. You're never going to be whole. You're in broken pieces. Are giving pieces of yourself all around. That comes with time. You know, that comes with because we all made mistakes when we were younger. We felt that we had to work twice as hard, be the smartest person in the room. We get that pressure. But after a while, then realize it's never going to be enough because I'm not part of the people who made that structure in the first place. It's whoever made it needs to break it. When we talk about this duality, I'm also thinking about belonging, right? You navigate, I mean, you've lived in Nigeria, you've lived in the US, you live in the Nordics now in Sweden, and you travel across the world. I guess my question here is, what's... uh Are the myths of belonging that you inherited and which ones have you had to rewrite? And I guess I'll tie that to the word home. You know, what is home for you, right? And I think a lot of us get that where we've lived, you know, in different places, we've moved to different communities. What is home? And home is tied to belonging as well. So I have removed the definition of belonging and home. I have detached it from place and I've attached it to space. So it can be a place where I feel comfortable like Nigeria where I can just slide in it can be any space where I don't have to uh explain my existence in that space. Right. So for me, when I played rugby for many years, kind of semi-pro, that was, I felt belonging there because that was a space where I could just fully be myself and not have to explain my existence, you know. So that is what I actually define to get belonging because if I keep feeling like I need to belong to a place, it will never be enough. But if I belong to a subset, for example, I am Afro-Swedish, know, that's a space where I feel like I fully belong, then that feels like a bit of a home right? So I just kind of stopped attaching belonging to a place. And just said, know, different spaces where I don't have to feel like I need to explain. I feel like I can just be me fully and not have to wear a facade, a front, you know. I have many friends that we kind of span different socioeconomic ranges, you know, from refugees to those in the 1%. Can I be myself across all of this. And I think that is what I'm grateful for at this stage in my life is that I can be the same Lola working in an asylum center, spending time with refugees and be the same person if I'm at a gala, You know, it's a lot of work, personal work. To able to get to that point to say I am the same person, regardless of any space you put me in. That's really interesting. You know, I travel a lot for work and these days I'm just like home is wherever I sleep, you know? So there's that initial context. And then of course home is wherever I'm with my kids and my husband and my family, But one of the things I found recent, well not recently, just it came up for me again or re-emerged is I spent Easter in Morocco. Mm. The minute I just landed on the African continent, there's also a different kind of feeling of home. I mean, I don't know many people in Morocco. It's not where I'm from but there's something about being on the African soil that I'm just like, land in a way. And then there's also that, so there's that grappling with the feeling of home shifting sometimes even when I'm in a new place. And I feel this every time I'm in any African country. I'm just like, I land. And of course, the closer to sub-Saharan Africa, the more I land, even more, you know? Because that's that feeling about home that I have. You know what adds to that? It's the actual, it's the minority stress, the removal of the minority stress. You feel it. It's, it's subconscious. It's in the body. The more you move to a place where you are majority or you, the, the stress kind of dissipates a bit. And it's the same feeling you get when you travel somewhere and then land in another country, like even at the airport, even on the plane, you already start feeling it in the body. That minority stress, even if nobody sees anything, even if people are nice to you, you feel it. So that is why when people also move back home or say, Oh, we get back to the continent, we just feel it's because you feel that stress dissipates. I'm in a place where there are more people like me. There are people that will understand me. There are people that like spices like me, like you start getting into a space where so that's what I you know, and I think that's what I see. And that's what I feel when I go back home but it's the minority minority stress of is my existence enough? Yeah, I was reflecting on that as well while in Morocco. I guess it's not like when I'm working around in Europe or the US, I'm thinking, my gosh, I need to be stressed. But I think there's something that just comes over me that I don't even recognize. I think it's a sub. Conscious or like an unconscious state of being and the only time I notice it's being different is for example when I land you know in a country in Africa or when I'm in a room with my people you know regardless of where I'm at so I'm just like my gosh I can just exhale Absolutely. And also think about it. Outside of Africa or like places where Black women are the majority, we are the least protected in society in any space. So it's that vulnerability we feel. When I'm in a place where it's majority white, then I know I'm the least protected person gender-wise, color-wise, ethnicity, in that space. So it's a fear as well. Sub-conscious, I don't feel safe, 100%. Even though I might feel safe, you know, physically, emotionally, mentally, it's a space that where I don't feel 100 % safe. Versus, yes, we know there are problems in Africa, there's all different kinds of cultural, even patriarchy. But I don't feel the same and the least protected in society. You know so so there's so many levels to this it's so complex it's so multi-dimensional that it can be very difficult to communicate you know to other people as well you're like well but it's Europe you know it's the trains run on time you have six weeks vacations and like yes those things are great but there's something else which is your mental health as well Thanks for articulating that. I want to talk about experiences that shape us, Be it in becoming, be it in feeling like you no longer owe anyone an explanation for your existence, or be it in how you keep yourself rooted when you are moving between spaces and cultures and geographies. Do you recall an experience or a moment in time that cracked you open for that? Like a before and after. There's so many kind of transition points, you know, in life, you know, for example, I knew the moment I wanted to be a travel writer. It's very specific in my mind and all of that. But I think there was a moment emotionally that really changed me. You know, as a travel photographer, you know, on that, when I wear that hat, I move in spaces where it's mostly like white men that look like GQ models and, you know, I'm competing with them, even though maybe their work isn't as good, but having to compete and prove myself in that space. So there was a time when I had been communicating with a camera brand, And I had used their cameras for many, many years. And so we had been communicating. And when I finally met the rep at an event where they were sponsoring my colleague who is a National Geographic photographer. The way the woman treated me was like, just excuse me, essentially get out of my face. I'm talking to a customer here. And that moment shocked me. But what happened was when I went to my mentor at National Geographic here in the Nordics, there was a woman at there. And I was telling her this story, I broke down and started crying. And I started crying the kind of cry that you can't stop I was crying and crying and crying because it wasn't about the girl or anything. It was about the way the woman had already said, you have no value. Who are you? You're a black woman. You're supposed to be doing something else. And so that moment, when I cried and cried that cry and the, lady was holding my hand. My mentor was a Vietnamese American woman. She also got it as a minority, but I want to say minority in this context because we're global majority, right? But in that moment was when I started realizing nothing I do will ever be enough. Nothing I do will ever be enough. So you better start moving through life with the audacity, and stop begging or chasing. And what happened was when I shifted that mindset, a few months later, Hasselblad so glad slipped into my DM. So an even better camera brand slipped into my DMs out of the blue saying, we've been watching you, we've been following your work and we love you and we want. You as part of our family. It opened space for something bigger and better. So that's one of the things that I started in life is if I see myself chasing, because as a freelancer, we are in that hustle mode. When I see I begin to chase, I catch myself and say, stop chasing because something bigger and better will naturally come to you. This happened even recently with a different travel agency where I'm like I'm trying to reduce freelancing and they're just kind of doing this and I told the guy I said you know what if it's to happen it will I'm not I'm going to stop chasing you guys even after we've had many years of relationship so that is one of the things I'm learning is when to stop chasing that moment that crying was when I realized I don't have to chase if it's what's meant for you will come to you as long as you do the work and you're ready and prepared and it's something we have to catch ourselves because sometimes we can feel desperate we can feel like but I have all these accolades I have all these things why aren't people jumping into my, you know, I feel it now even, but then I'm like, you know what? I'm modern enough. And those that realize it will find me. And that's what you want. The ones that truly value you and know your worth to come. You are definitely more than enough and I really liked what you said about audacity. The audacity to be, the audacity to exist as you are, think that resonates significantly. I want to ask, given this audacity, the reality as well that You are often in rooms where you represent more people than yourself. How do you carry that responsibility? To whom much is given much is expected right you know i always think about that i'll give you an example when i was traveling around uzbekistan i took so many selfies with people people are just coming up to take selfies because many of them hadn't seen a black woman and i felt like if i'm the only black woman they see in their lifetime i need to make sure that experience is great on behalf of all of us right which is a stupid kind of uh, burden to bear, but it means context. So I, so it depends on what I'm trying to do, what context I find myself in. So in that context, yes, I was willing to carry the burden of all black women so that if I have one great interaction with this person, then I'm chipping away their bias where maybe if they see us on TV as one narrative, then they can say, you know what, This is a different kind of narrative. Maybe they're a lot more complex. I don't know, but it depends on the context. When I go into the rooms, I also try to make sure we are seen as individuals because that is the privilege that we don't have. As black women, even as a black community is the privilege to be treated as an individual. Because if I make a mistake at work or even having a crap day at work, I don't want to. People to be like, know, all black women, they tend to be like bitchy like that, or they tend to be, you know, this. No, it's Lo la having a crap day. You don't know what's going to that morning. It has nothing to do with Chisom. Who might be having a fantastic day, right? And so the responsibility I bear is by telling those stories in parallel. It's by sharing the narratives, by showing the different aspects of black womanhood in those rooms I go in. So people saw it broadens views. And then it says, you know what? I love Mona. Henry is all right, but I'm starting treating people as individuals. I think one of the things that can be quite irritating is when I go to a place and the person says, oh, you're from Nigeria. I know this guy from Nigeria. Do you know him? I don't know. 250 million. I don't know the one guy in remote Russia that's Nigerian. I don't know. And that is what I'm trying to break. It's like a white woman won't go to another white woman and say, you're from Ohio. I know Debbie from Ohio. Do you know Debbie? No. It doesn't make sense. That is the work I do is to show just how multilayered complex, different, diverse, we are as a community. And so that's what I take into those rooms. And again, it depends on the context where sometimes I may have to carry the burden in a specific context or break down the barriers or keep away at the stereotypes in a different context. Well, thanks for what you do. Um I know that it can also be quite exhausting to have to carry that weight, to have to walk into rooms and know, how this goes depends on how people in this room see any other person who remotely looks like me. And I think navigating... that cross is it's a lot. So but I think you do it beautifully and also you're quite good at calling people to account and saying no this is not okay. I just want to acknowledge that that is not also easy to have to carry and bear that. I'm thinking about legacy right because you've just talked about the cross you carry and the and how you do so willingly right because if you're in a remote place you're the first of your kind that they've seen so how do you think about legacy maybe not in terms of achievement but in terms of impact like what impact would you like to have So two reasons, right? I'm doing this for my kids because you know, I'm raising kids who are from the Nordics, who still don't feel like this is their home or made to feel like they are truly Nordic, even though they are, right? So I call it disturbing the soil or at least airing the soil so they can grow. You know, if you think about it, that's why we have rich soil, know, we till the soil. So air can come in so that the seeds can grow. And the tilling of the soil, that's the discussions. That's having the difficult discussions so that it can create the environment for them to thrive. Ver sus will just really pat down the soil. It's all frozen. The seeds, you know, are not going to grow. They're not going to sprout. So that is what I'm doing. I think my legacy is not to disrupt, but it's to air the soil to create the context for us to have. Difficult conversations around our table. Families have difficult conversations because they love each other. You know, if I love you, I want you to grow. And so that is what I'm doing with the work. And then, you know, with the letter that lady wrote me about because I'm using my voice, she's using as that is the most incredible at woman thing that I could get is because you are, I am. Because I see you, can be that is, I mean, that is what this work really is all about is to let people know that they're enough to let them know they can show up, believe authentically, use their voices, which is all they have because strip everything away. All you have left is your voice is, know, what I can say this, I can choose to do this. I can go this way. I can do that. I can oppose, you know. Um, so that's what's hopefully will be the legacy is to help people show up in their lives to see. And also it can be cloaked in privilege because people were also suffering in many different ways. And one of my friends said, um, you can only hold your breath underwater for so long you're gonna have to surface for air otherwise you're gonna die and so that is what has given me grace around this region where people don't want to talk or don't want to share or don't want to shake the doors or don't want to rock anything is that's fine everybody has their own survival techniques i would never judge out anybody chooses to mentally survive in any space. But remember, it's like holding your breath underwater sooner or later, you still have to surface for air to breathe. Otherwise, you're just going to drown. I love that yes there's only so much we can hold our breath my gosh yes it's true you have to surface at some point you can hold it for three years you can hold it for 20 years at some point you're going to surface it may it may surface as a divorce it may surface as something but you still have to surface and breathe great Absolutely. Lola, what does courage look like for you right now? Courage has seasons, right? So I say courage can be the season of yelling and the season of silence. So I think of Michelle Obama when she skipped the inauguration, quietly said not the word. That's courage. That is silent courage, So right now, I mean, my season of silent courage, I have I was in the season of like kind of the show up, especially in my first two books, really making noise and good noise. Like I say, good trouble to make sure that, you know, in the face of opposition, in the face of systems that try to silence or change your narrative showing up courageously. Well, now I'm in the season of when I'm silent about something that means I've already spoken about the thing, you know. There was recently, I think it was April 5th when they were doing like worldwide protests against, you know, whatever. And somebody said, come to the protest and give a speech. And I'm like, no, I'm not available because I'd already made my, made my point when I voted, I was resting. So, so right now is a courage is rest for black women. In the face of when why don't you want to fight with me? Why don't you want to know no it takes courage to say, you know what, I'm resting right now because I've been fighting and fighting for so many years and you keep pulling the rug from under my feet. So now courage to me is rest is trying to look for the soft life, trying to build a life that prioritizes rest as a black woman that says your life should not be defined by struggle anymore. It has nothing to do with socioeconomic status. It's just how can I thrive even in my smaller circumstances or even in my bubble? How can I find joy every day? How can I say that I am worthy of rest and relaxation and not always have to be? The work mule you on fighting in society. That's courage. I love that. And that speaks to me. Think being in, you know, your moments of joy and rest, then you know what? No, I'm not going to show up. You know, I've showed up. I'm good. I'm gonna rest now. I love that. Yeah. So needed. Well, is this something you've created that you no longer feel it came from you? Nothing, nothing, nothing. Everything I've created has been... intentional at that moment in that time and and I always say you know it always reminds me of an interview with the actor Jeremy Irons I don't know if you know the actor Jeremy Irons but he was in an interview and the host was pulling up photos of him when he was younger saying that look at what you are wearing look at this are you embarrassed are you this and Jeremy is just like no I'm not embarrassed by any of that stuff. Are you pulling this out to embarrass me? No. That is what we add at that time. That was the information I had at that time. Those were the clothes I had at the time. So I'm not embarrassed, but when you know better, you do better, you choose better. So the information you have at that time is what, dictates how you show up at that time. So there's nothing I've created. Absolutely nothing I've created that I am not proud of. As long as I didn't go in and intentionally harm anybody or, or disrespect any communities. You know, in fact, one of the books I'm most proud of is my Lagom book about the Swedish secret of living well, because that book is the book I wish I had when I first moved. It's very objective in the way it's written. It talks about the good and the bad very objectively. But I wish that book existed when I moved because then I could quickly see this is how the mentality is in the Nordics. And then I can adjust and instead of beating my head against the wall, I can walk around the wall, you know, and things like that. In fact, in my online image bank where I share some of my photos, I have photos from like close to 20 years ago, bad quality, all of that. It's a visual history to see where you came from. Exactly. So see where you were and where you came from to where you are today. So I'm not the person that constantly curates and trains and removes and says the best work right now, your latest work is your best work. No, I need people to see a progression. This is where I came from to where I am today. Failing forward. What is coming up for me, you know? And like, there's something quite remarkable about being an amateur, you know, and trying and improving in real time. Think it, at least for me, that resonates better when I see people where it's not perfectly glossed. It's just it's life, you know? And they show up anyway. And I think there's something quite remarkable about that. Um I have a question for you about wisdom since the title of this podcast is overnight wisdom is there a wisdom you can share with us that came to you perhaps in the quiet perhaps seemingly overnight because we know wisdom is not overnight or even like in a moment of stillness One of my absolute favorite verses is be still and know that I am God. And I wear a bracelet that's called be still. It says be still. I give it out as gifts. That comes remember I told you about the chasing the chasing of the wind you know as it were the chasing of okay I'm enough see this is what I can do and there was one morning you know I was kind of reading through writing the gratitude journal and that came up it's like just be still be still you are running around with your own effort I'm a Christian and I'm a woman of faith. So it's like, why are you running around on your own effort when I can give you more, can provide more, you know, and I call it the analogy of the parade. I listened to this, it was at the sermon It's called the analogy of the parade where if you think about a parade that's coming down the street, you know, we like all the floats and everything. There's the reporter on the ground and then there's a reporter in the helicopter, they both talking. So the so the reporter on the ground can only see the part of the parade that comes in front of him and he's like look at this beautiful banyan or Mickey Mouse float my god this is gorgeous the reporter in the helicopter says if you think that was cool just wait on what's coming around the corner i can see the beginning and the end of this parade you thought that banyan float was cute just see what's coming around the corner So when I start feeling like I have no idea what's coming tomorrow, and I'm right now in a season of that, I have no idea what's next. I really am right now, but I know that I need to be still because I need to surrender to God. So that is the wisdom I, I try to take in is just show up. As prepared as you can in life so that when the blessings come you're ready. You don't have to know the answers to everything. Just know that what can you do today? You know, to make your life what's wrong to make the lives of others worthwhile. You don't have to know everything. And I think that can be difficult for people is we want to control everything we can't. But what we can do is if we're still We stop chasing crazily. I mean, obviously we still need to hustle a little bit, but just stop chasing everything. Then it will make space for what needs to find us to find us. I truly believe that. And that's based on experience. So that's the kind of wisdom that has come to me is to be still is just be still when things feel like you have no idea where things are going to go. Just be still. Be still. I love that. Thanks for sharing. Think there's something powerful in preparing as best as you can and then be still because what is for you? I think there's a running thread here in what you're telling us. You know, what is for you will come to you. I love that. Thanks for sharing. I feel like I could sit here and talk to you forever. But you know, we have to we have to stop talking at some point, but I do want to ask you perhaps a last question. Question here around if the younger Lola can see you now, what would make her proud and what would leave her in just a state of awe? What will make her proud is that she stuck to her voice. Her voice has matured, but she didn't choose to be someone else. You know, and that was what made me isolated and excluded a lot because when I was younger, I already had a good sense of who I was, even though I couldn't maybe articulate all of my desires and dreams. But I had a good, a strong sense of self. And so I kept my voice, you know, in the sense like my meta very voice. This is what I like. This is the kind of stories I like to tell. This is what moves me. And I kept communicating that. And when people didn't understand that I kept screaming that metaphorically through my work is this is who I am. And so if I go back to my younger self, I would say one, I'm proud of you doing that. But two, I wish you had stopped chasing earlier. I wish I had just existed in your truth Of course, there's society and other factors, but that's what I would have said, is you could have stopped that earlier. But I think one of the things that would surprise, and I don't know if it would even surprise my younger self, but I had always loved geography. I've always wanted to be part of National Geographic. And so for that to come to fruition in many ways in different angles, I think my younger self would be blown by that. Maybe not surprised, but just like, oh my God, it really happened. Right. And so I'm just grateful, you know, that I get to do this. It's not easy work. But, you know, it's not sometimes the most lucrative work, you know. But it is the work that makes my soul sing and for that I am deeply grateful. Right. I think I'm actually I lied. I'm to sneak in one more question here because something just came up for me. You know, one of the things I find incredibly fascinating and inspirational about you. I mean, you lead expedition into like the most random, most remote places. Right. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, how does she do this? And I mean, you've been featured everywhere, which I think is also quite beautiful. And right now you also talked about like sometimes it's not even about the lucrativeness of this work. So I do want to ask you just quickly for people who are listening who are aspiring writers or aspiring travel writers or people who want to take people on journeys and experiences in building a business because essentially you have a business, do they need to know? They need to know their why. Why are you doing something? Because if you don't know your why, you're going to get frustrated. You're not going to have longevity in the industry that you choose. I always say, why do you want to be a travel influencer? Why are you in travel? Because travel itself is not your purpose. That's just a route or channel for your purpose. Your purpose is something you can do both at home and while you're traveling. So that is what I try to tell people is what, why do you want to do what you're doing? If they can actually articulate their why, then I think they'll be all right. But if they can't fully articulate it and they feel like it's, you know, what they need to be doing now, I call it trends. I call it like suffering the waves of trends. There's a swimming in a trend. Trends come and go. Trends are like riptides. So if you're swimming in every trend to stay relevant, you can drown. But if you surf the trend, just use the tools while still going with the waves, then it's either for you to drown because you are not swept in by the trend. So focus on your natural progression and evolution as a storyteller versus trying to always stay relevant. Because when you always try to stay relevant, that is when it's not sustainable. It just isn't. It lacks that authenticity. It's not you when you're trying to like stick with what is trendy. You lose your voice maybe in that process as well. Yeah. Yeah. Tools but your audience kind of changes as you go. I like I cannot have the same audience when I was 20. It's different. And I need to make space for that. I don't need to compete. You know, for the attention. Exactly. Exactly. So This has been lovely, Lola. You are amazing and inspiring. As always, I love you so much. Thank you for your time. And it's been, thank you. Thank you. About you. So yeah, it's mutual Thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you. See you soon. And yeah, I look forward to the next time we'll All right. Thank you for spending time with us on Overnight Wisdom. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you pause, please like, leave a comment, or share it with someone who needs to hear it. You can follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're feeling generous, a rating or review goes a long way in helping others find us too. Until next time, stay curious, stay tender, and may the wisdom you need find you exactly when you're ready.